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Die Crack Fingerprints

"O Set Left" Conclusions

LVA Submission

As soon as we put to bed the issues surrounding the "O Set Left" group of VAMs we have another group of four coins ready to go to Leroy.

 

Hopefully in this group there will be another discovery or two.

 

 

VAM's 1H and 40

This is an issue that we believe only Leroy can give a definitive answer to in resolving whether or not doubled denticles exist on dies in a form not considered to be ejection issues.

 

With the four coins mentioned above we will be adding some examples of VAM's 1H and 40 to the mix to see if they need to be separated or combined.

 

 

We planned to get back on this issue with the return of the coins from Leroy, but quite frankly a little rest on that topic helped.

 

There is a lot more to study on the 1881-O and we also need to spend a little "clean up" time with the existing data to be sure it is carried through to all the VAM and Die pages on the web site.

 

The Die Crack Fingerprint pages have been updated to include images of VAMs and identified die cracks.  But until we put to bed the die identifications these remain incomplete.

 

Back in July we sent Leroy a complete set of VAMs labeled as "O Set Left" (Reverse Die l) so that they might all be compared side-by-side.  We were seeking guidance on a grouping that had been identified over a very long period of time.  Here is what we learned.

 

1.  VAM 3 remains the original discovery and therefore the baseline "O Set Left" variety for Reverse Die l.

 

2. The VAMs identified in this group included one VAM, 56, that is a Reverse Die aVAM 56 actually has a centered, upright mint mark and should not be a part of the grouping.

 

3. The new VAM's 77 and 77A also have a mint mark that is only slightly left but upright and not tilted left.  This is a Reverse Die a and not Reverse Die l.

 

4.  Four VAM's 23, 35, 64, and 70 share the same reverse characteristics although in different die states.  They all have an upright "O Set Left".  They all share a differentiation of two short vertical polish lines in the right wing.  These are a Reverse Die l, but a different physical die than VAM 3.

 

5.  VAM 32 also has a mint mark that is set left and upright but lacks the differentiation characteristics of VAMs 23, 35, 64, and 70.  This VAM stands alone as a Reverse Die l.

 

6.  VAMs 54 and 61 are "O Set Left" and upright.  They share a thread-like impression in the leaves above the LL in DOLLAR.  These two stand alone as Reverse Die l but different than the others.

 

7.  VAM 57 is an "O Set Left" but also stands alone as a VAM with a different tilted left mint mark than VAM 23.  This is a Reverse Die l but a different physical die.

 

Please see all our notes below.

 

The "O Set Left" Group of VAMs

Conclusions and Summary

We started this discussion with the intention of looking first at the die cracks on all coins with the Reverse Die designation of l.  Then we added to the discussion three additional coins with different die designations, but with "O Set Left" in the title or official description of the die.

 

After digesting all the information from Leroy here is where we stand.

 

  1. The VAM 3 reverse die C3l gets additional descriptors to include the "slight tilt left but within the normal tolerance".
  2. VAM 23 has a different reverse die than VAM 3
    1. The m/m is set further left than on the C3l die of VAM 3.
    2. The right wing is overpolished.
    3. There is a vertical die polish line below the wing-neck gap.
  3. VAM 32 has a different reverse die than either VAM 3 or VAM 23
    1. Pitting on the reverse
    2. Long vertical die polish line in the middle of the outer feathers of the eagle's right wing
  4. VAM 54 has a different reverse die than VAMs 3, 23, and 32
    1. O m/m is set left
    2. Does not have the vertical polish line of VAM 32
    3. Thread-like die impression in the wreath leaves above LL (light and difficult to see, but there)
  5. VAM 56 has a different reverse die than the C3l with the O m/m centered
  6. VAM 57 has a different reverse die than VAM 3
    1. O m/m set slightly left with a slight left tilt and different than VAM 23
    2. Middle of the eagle's right wing is over polished but not as much as VAM 23
  7. VAM 61 has the same reverse as VAM 54
    1. O m/m is set left
    2. Thread-like die impression in the wreath leaves above LL
  8. VAM 64 has the same reverse of VAM's 23, 35, and 70
    1. O Set Left
    2. Over polished right wing as in VAMs 23, 35, and 70
  9. VAM 70 is the same die as VAMs 23, 35, and 64
    1. Overpolished right wing as VAMs 23, 35, and 64
  10. VAM 35 same die as VAMs 23, 64, and 70
    1. O Set Left
    2. Over polished right wing as in VAMs 23, 64, and 70
    3. Short vertical polish lines between the eagle's body and left wing
  11. VAM 77A a new die with a displaced field, designated as a C 3 a
    1. O m/m set only slightly left within normal tolerance
    2. Displaced field breaks at TAT of STATES and slightly at AME of AMERICA

Shared Characteristics

VAM

m/m Position

Over Polished Right Wing

Thread-like Impression in Leaves

Vertical Polish Line Below Wing-neck Gap

m/m Tilt

Pitted

Vertical Polish Line Right Wing

Clashed

Notations

Die

3

Left

Slightly Left

No

No

No

No

No

No

Baseline

C3l

23

Left of V3

Upright

Yes

No

Yes

No

No

No

C3l, but not V3 reverse

C3l

32

Left

Upright

Yes

No

No

Yes

Yes

No

C3l, but not V3, V23

C3l

35

Left

Upright

Yes

No

Yes

No

No

No

V23,V35,V64,V70

C3l

54

Left

Upright

No

Yes

No

Light

No

No

Same as V61

C3l

56

Centered

Upright

No

No

No

No

No

No

Not C3l

C3a

57

Slightly Left

Slightly Left

Yes

No

No

No

No

No

Not V23

C3l

61

Left

Upright

No

Yes

No

Light

No

Obverse at Mouth, No Letter Transfer

Same as V54

C3l

64

Left

Upright

Yes

No

Yes

No

No

Lightly on Reverse, No Letter Transfer

V23,V35,V64,V70

C3l

70

Left

Upright

Yes

No

Yes

No

No

No

V23,V35,V64,V70

C3l

77

Slightly Left

Upright

No

No

No

Yes

No

No

Same Obverse as V35,V3

C3a

77A

Slightly Left

Upright

No

No

No

Yes

No

No

Displaced Field

C3a

Logical Groupings

m/m Position

VAM

Over Polished Right Wing

Thread-like Impression in Leaves

Vertical Polish Line Below Wing-neck Gap

m/m Tilt

Pitted

Vertical Polish Line Right Wing

Clashed

Notations

Die

3

Left

Slightly Left

No

No

No

No

No

No

Baseline

C3l

23

Left of V3

Upright

Yes

No

Yes

No

No

No

C3l, but not V3 reverse

C3l

35

Left

Upright

Yes

No

Yes

No

No

No

V23,V35,V64,V70

C3l

64

Left

Upright

Yes

No

Yes

No

No

Lightly on Reverse, No Letter Transfer

V23,V35,V64,V70

C3l

70

Left

Upright

Yes

No

Yes

No

No

No

V23,V35,V64,V70

C3l

32

Left

Upright

Yes

No

No

Yes

Yes

No

C3l, but not V3, V23

C3l

54

Left

Upright

No

Yes

No

Light

No

Same as V61

C3l

No

61

Left

Upright

No

Yes

No

Light

No

Obverse at Mouth, No Letter Transfer

Same as V54

C3l

56

Centered

Upright

No

No

No

No

No

No

Not C3l

C3a

57

Slightly Left

Slightly Left

Yes

No

No

No

No

No

Not V23

C3l

77

Slightly Left

Upright

No

No

No

Yes

No

No

Same Obverse as V35,V3

C3a

77A

Slightly Left

Upright

No

No

No

Yes

No

No

Displaced Field

C3a

The "O Set Left" Group of VAMs (Earlier Discussions and New Notes)

Several months ago we sent a group of coins to Leroy Van Allen for analysis that included one coin from each of the following VAMs.

 

VAM 3 - Doubled 18-1, O Set Left - 1965 (George Mallis)

VAM 23 - Doubled Profile, O Set Left - 1982 (Martin Field)

VAM 32 - Doubled 18-1, O Set Left - 2001 (Marc Serafine), revised 2017

VAM 35 - Doubled 188, O Set Left - 2005 (Mike Best)

VAM 35? - Now New VAM - 77A

VAM 54 - Doubled Right 1 Bottom, O Set Left - 2015 (HawkeEye)

VAM 56 - Doubled Right 1 Lower Right - 2015 (HawkeEye)

VAM-57 - Doubled Ear Right Inside, O Set Left - 2015 (HawkeEye)

VAM 61 - Doubled 18, O Set Left - 2015 (HawkeEye)

VAM 64 - Doubled 18, Polished Forehead, O Set Left - 2015 (HawkeEye)

VAM 70 - Doubled Cap Top, UNUM, O Set Left - 2016 (HawkeEye)

 

We asked for his opinion to clarify the VAMworld listings and to see if die assignments needed to be rethought given the time span of the discoveries.  Fifty-one years is a significant time span, and we assume that George Mallis' discovery coin is the basis for comparison.  Mr. Van Allen's analysis has been added to the information below that we submitted.

 

VAM 3 - Doubled 18-1, O Set Left - Die l

This becomes our baseline comparison Reverse Die l.  The mint mark is PCGS MS 6233370992VAM 3definitely set left, but remains upright.  In some examples the interior of the mint mark is not clean, but also not doubled.  In the left wing-neck gap there is some roughness, but more importantly there is a die gouge that runs from about 4 o'clock to 10 o'clock.  This die gouge has been validated on multiple coins.

 

If the right wing has had any polishing it is very slight and we would not identify it as such right now.  The bow has some distinct roughness that completely encircles the inside of the opening.

 

 

So these are going to be our four points of comparison on all the dies.

 

1. Upright mint mark that is set left

2. Die gouge in the left wing-neck gap

3. Very slight right wing polishing if at all

4. Roughness that encircles the interior of the bow

 

 

 

 

 

 

LVA's Comments:

Strongly doubled 18 as pictured in VAM book for VAM 3.  O m/m set left added to description in 2001 of C3l with slight tilt to left but within normal tolerance.

1881-O Documentation Action:

We need to check the VW notations to be sure they match LVA's and include the 2001 update to the C3l die.

 

An image of the die gouge in the neck vee also needs to be shown as a PUP since it appears on multiple coins and is on the die.

VAM 23 - Doubled Profile, O Set Left - Die l ?

PCGS MS 6310003913VAM 23Although also designated as Die l, there was a fifteen year gap between the identification of VAMs 3 and 23.  We do not believe this is the same reverse die as the baseline die on VAM 3.  This die can be distinguished from the baseline die in at several different ways.

 

The mint mark is set left and upright as in the general description of the die, but there are major differences, some noted before and some not.

 

First, there is a greater degree of polish in both wings, and there are two die gouges, one on each wing, that are not present on the VAM 3, Die l coins.  Second, the die gouge and roughness in the left wing-neck gap is missing, but we would concede may have been polished away.

 

LVA's Comments:

O m/m set left of C3l.  Doubled profile of III217 added in 2004.  Over polished eagle's right wing.  Different reverse die than for VAM 3.  Vertical die polishing line below wing-neck gap.  (In other paragraph LVA states that VAMs 23, 35, 64, and 57 all share the same reverse die in different die states.)

VAM 32 - Doubled 18-1, O Set Left - Die l ?

PCGS MS 6581628041VAM 32Although also designated as Die l, there was a nineteen year gap between the identification of VAMs 23 and 32, and a thirty-six year gap between VAMs 3 and 32.  We do not believe this is the same reverse die as the baseline die on VAM 3.  This die can be distinguished from the baseline die in at several different ways.

 

First, the mint mark is set left, but tilted slightly right.  Perhaps not as tilted as some would like but different enough from VAM 3 to be noticeable.  Second, the die is pitted across the surface of the wings and in the wing-neck gap there are only some fine pitting marks.  There are no die gouges on either wing or in the wing-neck gap, and the wings do not appear to have been repolished.  Third, there is some roughness to the inside of the bow, but it is very different than VAM 3.

 

LVA's Comments:

Doubled 18-1 with O m/m set left.  Different reverse die than 3 and 23.  Has pitting on reverse plus long vertical polishing line in middle of outer feathers of eagle's right wing.

VAM 35 - Doubled 188, O Set Left - Die l

PCGS MS 6482682128VAM 35VAM 35 may in fact be two different VAMs and we will look at both of them here.  The Reverse Die designation is l.  This Reverse Die comes closer to being a match to the one on VAM 3 that any of the preceding VAMs.  We believe that this is a later die state of Reverse Die l.

 

This may in fact be a later die state of the VAM 3 Reverse Die where the right wing shows heavy polishing and the chatter in the wing-neck gap and bow have been polished away.  There is no pinned or gouged wing on either side and the mint mark is as close to set left and upright as we have seen.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

LVA's Comments:

Doubled 188.  O set left, same over polished eagle's right wing reverse die as VAMs 23, 64, 70.  All have the same 2 short horizontal polishing lines between the eagle's body and eagle's left wing.

VAM 54 - Doubled Right 1 Bottom, O Set Left - Die l

PCGS MS 61DMPL14675967VAM 54VAM 54 is one of our discovery VAMs so we can go to the Discovery Coin for verification and then validate our observations on other coins.  This is not a rare VAM so there is a lot of material.  Most VAM 54 coins are either DMPL or PL, but we validated these features on five MS grade coins.  On most VAM 54 coins there is some white residue, often accompanied by a clear substance that clings in the crevices.  We believe this to be grease or some other agent used in the coining process.  The clear substance can be seen on this coin at the bottom left of the bow and the bottom of the O in DOLLAR.  This is a moderately pitted die across much of the eagle which also signals die wear or misuse.

 

This VAM seems to be a late die state where the DMPL designation came from extensive repolishing which is visible on both wings and in the upper region of the tail feathers.  The mint mark is set left and vertical, but has some polish lines inside the oval.  This would not rule it out as a late die state of the reverse of VAM 3.  There is some roughness in the win-neck gap, but the die gouge of VAM 3 is missing.  But on a heavily repolished die this could have easily been removed.  There is a different roughness to the inside of the bow, but once again nothing to rule this out as a later die state of the reverse of VAM 3.  We believe that this is a later die state of Reverse Die l.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

LVA's Comments:

Doubled right 1 base as a notch in bottom.  O m/m set left with very light pitting on eagle.  Doesn't have the VAM 32 vertical polishing line in wing.  Thread-like impression in wreath leaves above LL, not VAMs 3, 23, 32.

VAM 56 - Doubled Right 1 Lower Right - Die l ?

PCGS MS 6216140642VAM 56VAM 56 is one of our discovery VAMs so we can go to the Discovery Coin for observations.  But this is one of those confusing coins that you need to get your microscope out and settle in to understand.

 

Back on VAM 3 we described a roughness on the inside of the bow that creates a unique pattern.  That pattern is more evident on VAM 56 and can be illustrated as a polygon (almost).  This same pattern is on the inside of the VAM 3 bow.

 

VAM 3 also has a small die gouge in the wing neck gap, and VAM 56 also has one.  But on VAM 56 this is a different gouge.  On VAM 56 it is essentially horizontal where on VAM 3 it is diagonal.  That would not rule this one out as a Reverse Die i because of polishing, but it is different.  If there is any polishing in the wings it is very slight.

 

And then there is the mint mark which we think should help with the sorting out of the die.  But our observation would be that this mint is not set quite as far left.  So back to Photoshop to line up the two coins and we were right.  The mint mark on the VAM 56 is not set as far left and is probably within the tolerance of being a centered mint mark.

 

So this die is up in the air.  It has several markings that match the Reverse Die l of VAM 3, but the mint mark is not left but centered.  Unless we can find other evidence to support this as Reverse Die l, then we do not believe this is the same reverse die as the baseline die on VAM 3.

 

 

 

 

 

LVA's Comments:

Doubled 1 vertical shaft lower right.  O m/m centered so not C3l set left die.

VAM-57 - Doubled Ear Right Inside, O Set Left - Die l ?

PCGS MS 6220778874VAM 57VAM 57 is another one of our discovery VAMs and is designated with a Reverse Die l.  We have three examples of the VAM and all exhibit the same traits, or we probably should say the absence of traits.

 

The wing-neck gap is completely clean and devoid of features.  The interior of the bow is also clean and without features.  The eagle's right wing has been polished and there is loss of detail.  This leaves only the mint mark as a distinguishing feature.  The mint mark is set slightly left, but also it seems to be cantered slightly left.

 

Based on all these factors we do not believe this is the same reverse die as the baseline die on VAM 3.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

LVA's Comments:

Doubled ear right inside.  O m/m set slightly left.  Middle of eagle's right wing over polished but not as much as VAM 23.  O m/m has very slight tilt to left different than VAM 23.

VAM 61 - Doubled 18, O Set Left - Die l ?

PCGS AU 5831698266VAM 61VAM 61 is one of our discoveries in 2015 and since then we have located thirteen examples, so not a rare VAM.  Our discovery coin is a very lightly worn AU 58 and we have other MS coins to use to validate the features.

 

The mint mark appears to be set left and vertical.  There is a distinctive die crack that runs through DOLLAR and in other areas of the die, but these do not align with other Reverse Die l coins.  There is another feature with the mint mark that is a differentiating item.  In the top and bottom of the mint mark there is a flat shiny area that looks similar to marks often labeled as "Dot in O."  This is not that feature but it has some of the visual characteristics.

 

We do not believe this is the same reverse die as the baseline die on VAM 3.

 

This is a pitted die, but early in that failure.  The pitting in the eagle's wing-neck gap does have a set pattern that can be used for identification once you have a coin for comparison.

 

The bow also has pitting but lacks the roughness of many of the other dies.  The eagle's wings do not appear to have been repolished and also show signs of pitting.

 

LVA's Comments:

Doubled 18 of VAM 34A.  Same reverse die as VAM 54 with thread-like die impression in wreath leaves above LL with O m/m set left.

VAM 64 - Doubled 18, Polished Forehead, O Set Left - Die l

PCGS MS 6230399745VAM 64VAM 64 is a discovery of ours in 2016 and so far we have not been able to locate another example.  The most distinctive feature is the polished forehead, so other features get ignored.

 

First is the eagle's wings.  Both wings have been re-polished with the right wing showing more loss of detail.  As one might expect with this degree of repolishing the eagle's wing-neck gap is clean (with the very faintest of pitting just beginning to show but only under a high power of magnification).

 

The interior of the bow has been cleaned up in this process with only the faintest of marks.  We would classify the mint mark as set left and upright.  The interior of the mint mark is completely clean (it is reflection in the photograph).

 

We believe this is the same reverse die as the baseline die on VAM 3.

 

LVA's Comments:

Doubled 18 and Liberty head profile.  O set left, same over polished eagle's right wing reverse die as VAMs 23, 35, & 70. and has a vertical polishing line below wing-neck gap.

VAM 70 - Doubled Cap Top, UNUM, O Set Left - Die l

PCGS AU 5380467529VAM 70VAM 70 is also one of our discoveries in 2016 and has a Reverse Die designation of l.  We have only located two examples, both of which are AU 53 coins.  However, both coins show significant detail and we can reach solid conclusions from the discovery coin.

 

The right wing is significantly overpolished, but has no other significant traits.  The mint mark is set left and vertical.  The wing-neck gap is clear of any distinctions.

 

We believe that this is a later die state of Reverse Die l.

 

 

 

LVA's Comments:

Doubled cap top and UNUM.  O set left, same over polished eagle's right wing reverse die as VAMs 23, 64, and 70.  All have 2 short horizontal polishing lines between eagle's body and eagle's left wing.

VAM 35 ? - Doubled 188, O Set Left - Die l (Now VAM 77A)

PCGS MS 64+31451530VAM 35?While examining all the VAM 35 coins we came across one that does not have a matching Reverse Die.  We can reach this conclusion first because none of our VAM 35 coins have any die cracks while this coin has significant cracks in unique patterns.  If this proves to be a new VAM then it will be our first of 2019, so we are pulling for it.

 

But back to our basic question concerning the similarity to the VAM 3 Reverse Die.  First, the wing-neck gap has some pitting and then the area immediately below the gap and into the wing is heavily pitted.

 

The mint mark appears to be more centered and upright, not left and upright.  At first we thought this was the reverse of VAM 1H, but the die cracks are very similar and not the same.  Also on the reverse of VAM 1H the eagle's left wing is not pitted.  We also compared it to a VAM 40 Reverse Die without success.  The mint mark on the VAM 1H is also set slightly higher.

 

Unless we can find other evidence to support this as Reverse Die l, then we do not believe this is the same reverse die as the baseline die on VAM 3.

 

 

LVA's Comments:

Has doubled 188 of VAM 35.  O m/m not set left but only slightly left within normal tolerance.  So is a new combo.  Also has unlisted displaced field breaks at TAT of STATES and slightly at AME of AMERICA.  Displaced field breaks likely led to reverse die retirement and replaced with VAM 35/3 or other obverse VAM die.

 

These become VAMs 77 and 77A, with 77A being the coin we sent LVA for analysis.  VAM 77 is implied without the displaced field.